Bakhtin teleports in, rummages around, looking for some vodka, then pokes Burke to @invite Berthoff (allatonceness) to join in the next 60 minutes for cocktails and a chat.

Burke eyes himself warily for ignoring the login watcher and hugs Berthoff (allatonceness) warmly as she arrives, waving to all.

Berthoff (allatonceness) paces a bit, accepts a glass of wine from Grassi and, sipping, nods her approval.

Berthoff (allatonceness) smiles over her wine glass and says, "curiouser and curiouser."

All three men eye Berthoff (allatonceness) questioningly.

Berthoff (allatonceness) explains, "If `learning from experience' is understood as what Peirce called `the endless process of learning from signs,' I think we can invent humane pedagogies which will endlessly create possibilities for teaching and learning." 5

Grassi nods vigorously in agreement with Berthoff (allatonceness) saying, "Inventive discourse shows itself to be rhetorical, different from rational discourse, for inventive speech originates in experience, in the pathos of the claim of Being that is different at each time." 33

Grassi says, "Folly is something light and not rational. As such, it allows freedom to all desires. Thus the door is open to ingenium, the ingenious, creative, inventive power of the poet. (Folly 90- 95)

Grassi says, "Acting without reason is not insanity, because our existence finds its realization not in the realm of what is rationally demonstrable, but on the basis of folly" (Folly).

Grassi says, "A classic example of this is Sebastian Brant's Narrenschiff. In 1494, on Carnival, this book was greeted by contemporaries as a great event" (Folly)

Grassi says, "His book is based on the opposition of darkness and light, darkness identified with folly and detachment from God and his light and reason The Narr is the non-Christian or the bad Christian, prey to the devil, bound finally for the torments of hell. From this point of view, the world could e identified with the night f folly. Since however man does not possess tow souls, he should renounce the world and prepare himself to die well. All the humor that folly entailed in the Carnival play...obtains a metaphysical sense. The welsatire becomes a priest or a director of man's conscience, who eversees the welfare of souls by condemning all forms of folly and re-establishing the values that constitute the ordo mundi. Thus pessimism becomes pervasive" (Folly )

Grassi says, "Believing that only rational thinking and speaking are the essence of human action, medieval thought judged "folly" as insanity."

Holquist (speaking Bakhtinese) says, "The tripartite nature of dialogue bears within it the seeds of hope; insofar as my "I" is dialogic , it insures that my existence is not a lonely event but part of a larger whole."

Grassi says "Ariosto's *ingenium* or inventive power thrives on the natural instincts within the world of man's natural needs."

Holquist (speaking for himself) says, "Poets who feel misunderstood in their lifetimes, martyrs for lost political causes, quite ordinary people caught in lives of quiet desperation -- all have been correct to hopethat outside the tyranny of the present there is a possible addressee who will understand them." (BHW 38)

Bakhtin (speaking for himself) says, "there is neither a first word or a last word. The contexts of dialogue are without limit. They extend into the deepest past and the most distant future. Even meanings born in dialogues of the remotest past will never be finally grasped once and for all , they will always be renewed in later dialogue. At any present moment of the dialogue there are great masses of forgotten meanings, but these will be recalled again, at a given moment in the dialogue's later course when it will be given new life. For nothing is absolutely dead: every meaning will someday have it's homecoming festival." (Estetika 373)

Grassi says, "Ariosto creates a poetic myth which illustrates the power of folly."

Holquist (speaking Bakhtinese) says, "a dialog is composed of an utterance, a reply, and a relation between the two. It is the relation that is most important of the three. ( BHW 38)

The Trinity Tavern regulars point to a Guest Book, and invite your comments before you leave for other areas on RoxMOO..

Obvious exits: (to the welcome room), garden (to Gardens), study (to A Tale of Two Teachers), work rooms (to MOO && Theory), @quit (to leave RoxMOO),