Moo Log 04/23/96

MOO Discussion: 04/23/96

Speech Communication 454

********* Ben: slide 1 on benslide *********

Welcome to today's MOO discussion!
The topic of the readings is cyberpunk and computer hacking.
In some ways this topic brings together many of the themes
we have been discussing all semester

How do you respond to Fitting's reading of NEUROMANCER?
Do you think he is correct in his critique of computer-based education?
(See his comments on page 309, for example).
********* End *********
Jai waves at Pinhead.
Pinhead waves at Jai.
Logging is turned off by Jai.
Tue Apr 23 13:35:59 1996 PDT
Tue Apr 23 16:00:50 1996 PDT
Logging is turned on by Gofy.
Gofy leaves for the hall.
comet has arrived.
comet asks, "hello?"
Gofy has arrived.
Gofy smiles at comet.
comet says, ""
comet smiles back
Bullwinkle has arrived.
PrinceCharming teleports in.
cookie has arrived.
comet exclaims, "it's about time!"
Gofy chuckles.
Bullwinkle says, "Gofy, this is a study group at my house right now. Some beer and other
oddities, watch my typing get worse."
Gofy nods to Bullwinkle and smiles.
comet exclaims, "Bullwinkle you are a bad boy!"
Bullwinkle says, "Hurt me baby"
Bullwinkle laugh.
comet says, "only if you beg"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "PLEEEEEEEEASEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
cookie says, "what is the topic for today's discussion? ANybodycare? I thingk I'm in the
wrong room..."
PrinceCharming (Suave) chuckles.
comet spanks Bullwinkle
Bullwinkle moan.
********* Gofy: slide 1 on benslide *********
Welcome to today's MOO discussion!
The topic of the readings is cyberpunk and computer hacking.
In some ways this topic brings together many of the themes
we have been discussing all semester

How do you respond to Fitting's reading of NEUROMANCER?
Do you think he is correct in his critique of computer-based education?
(See his comments on page 309, for example).
********* End *********
PrinceCharming (Suave) sighs.
Gofy . o O ( And that was it..:) )
Bullwinkle asks, "Gofy, shouldn't we wait until more of the class arrives?"
PrinceCharming goes home.
comet says, "apparently not"
Gofy nods to Bullwinkle and says, "Sure. And prolly for Ben too."
Hummingbird teleports in.
comet says, "Ben is in here"
Gofy just replied to the 'todays topic'.
Bullwinkle says, "Since Ben is not here yet, I will be right back...."
Bullwinkle sleep.
turtle teleports in.
Hummingbird asks, "I missed today's topic , what is happening so far?"
jazz teleports in.
PrinceCharming teleports in.
Gofy says to Hummingbird, "Nothing so far.."
comet says, "ben is here Bull"
Bullwinkle asks, "I don't see him?"
Tue Apr 23 16:10:50 1996 PDT
comet says, "actually he is logging on right now"
jazz says, "hello"
Bullwinkle says, "Are you in the Lab"
comet says, "yup"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "Cool!"
Hummingbird says, "what do you think about "enegative mythologies""
PrinceCharming says, "UYes"
jazz says, "maybe....."
Bullwinkle Poke at Hummingbird.
Bullwinkle asks, "Who are U asking?"
Hummingbird says, "I meant negative mythologies, that were talked about in the Breaking into
heavan article."
Bullwinkle says, "Okay, let me type my response"
Hummingbird says, "I'm asking anyone. Just want to get started ."
jazz asks, "already?"
Bullwinkle smile at jazz.
Bullwinkle says, "Yup"
comet asks, "Hummingbird, why don't you give us your critique?"
yung teleports in.
jazz says, "good idea"
bens25 teleports in.
Hummingbird says, "it's about hegemony or marketing something that is good to make it seem
bad. "
comet says, "bens25 identify yourself "
PrinceCharming says, "bens25, change your name to something more personalbe"
PrinceCharming goes home.
Bullwinkle says, "I Like Bens25"
yung says, "hi"
yung bows.
Hummingbird says, "hi yung"
jazz says, "another car...."
comet says, "well if Bullwinkle likes it...then "
Gofy smiles at yung.
yung says, "hi Hummingbird"
Bullwinkle says, "I just finished my @describe"
jazz says, "bens 25 at least describe yourself"
Bullwinkle smile at bens25.
comet asks, "How do you check out someones description?"
Bullwinkle asks, "Is Ben here?"
Bullwinkle says, "Type look and the person's name"
comet says, "He just finished checking his email"
Hummingbird says, "@examine and then their name"
Pinhead (polite) teleports refridgerator out.
comet says, "here he comes"
comet exclaims, "really!"
Ben has arrived.
comet says, "hee hee"
Gofy smiles at Ben.
Ben says, "hello"
Bullwinkle says, "Hello Dr. "
cookie says, "about the fitting article"
jazz exclaims, "you took the fridge without asking!"
Ben says, "wheeee..... "
cookie asks, "did anyone have a comment on that?"
jazz says, "how rude"
Joan-of-arc teleports in.
Ben asks, "yes, cookie, what about it?"
Joan-of-arc says, "hi Bulwinkle"
Bullwinkle asks, "Which article first?"
cookie says, "I agree that we don't question what technology is doing to us"
Bullwinkle (buzzed) smile at Joan-of-arc.
Joan-of-arc asks, "buzzed again?"
comet exclaims, "I absolutly question what technology is doing to us!"
********* Ben: slide 1 on benslide *********
Welcome to today's MOO discussion!
The topic of the readings is cyberpunk and computer hacking.
In some ways this topic brings together many of the themes
we have been discussing all semester

How do you respond to Fitting's reading of NEUROMANCER?
Do you think he is correct in his critique of computer-based education?
(See his comments on page 309, for example).
********* End *********
Hummingbird asks, "is technology doing us or is it by default?"
jazz says, "hey joan"
Joan-of-arc says, "hey"
cookie says, "we continu to ask waht hat ist can do for us and the n we getsay it's doing us
because ewe don't question it we just take it"
A_Perfect_Angel! teleports in.
Ben says, "on 309 Fitting says"
Lancelot has arrived.
Ben says, "oops...ok - here iet comes."
********* Ben: slide 1 on benslide *********
Welcome to today's MOO discussion!
The topic of the readings is cyberpunk and computer hacking.
In some ways this topic brings together many of the themes
we have been discussing all semester

How do you respond to Fitting's reading of NEUROMANCER?
Do you think he is correct in his critique of computer-based education?
(See his comments on page 309, for example).
********* End *********
Bullwinkle says, "Can we take a minute to formulate answers and then come back.. Will be much
more organized.."
Bullwinkle says, "Can we take a minute to formulate answers and then come back.. Will be much
more organized.."
A_Perfect_Angel! asks, "Do you mean a minute to READ then come back?"
Bullwinkle says, "Not necessary, you try typing a few lines at a time"
Pinhead teleports in.
Bullwinkle says, "It will be more organized for all to read"
Ben says, "pinhead is here itto take us all to hell"
Ben says, "itto=to"
Pinhead says, "you know it."
CJ teleports in.
Hummingbird says, "the "ad-free environment of school or virtual environments seem to be an
excuse to pave the way to businesses. The educational value is sometimes suspect."
Bullwinkle (normal) poke at Pinhead (polite).
A_Perfect_Angel! says, "I can't go to hell"
A_Perfect_Angel! goes home.
Bullwinkle says, "I am there"
Pinhead (polite)
CJ says, "byeperfect agne"
turtle says, "I agree with Fitting that Neuromancer puts traditional themes into a new
setting."
cinderella asks, ""Isay say where is ther Bullwinkle?"
Tue Apr 23 16:21:04 1996 PDT
Bullwinkle says, "I have your slipper, Ma'am"
comet says, "someone explain how there is anything traditional about Neuro..."
Ben says, "On 309 Fitting quotes Engelhardt: "Palnning is underway to transport students to
computergenerated hypermalls where they can electronically purchase products......""
Pinhead (calmly) seems to be staring evily at ben
Hummingbird says, "I reember when i read nuro that the problems of today were not gone, but
more pronouncesd. such as the use of drugs."
Ben says, "oop.... palnning=planning"
Ben asks, "what about the use of drugs?"
comet exclaims, "sounda like a nightmare to me!"
Ben lights a cigarette and sips his coffee
cookie asks, "in an electronic classroom i cn see students floating waway but don't they do
that anyway?"
Bullwinkle says, "It's not tradition in that sense, but the essence is still the same.
Society
>> Network buffer overflow: 17 lines of output to you have been lost <<
jazz says, "i have heard about classrooms today that use commercials in the setting.
NEUROMANSER IIS NOT TOO FAR OFF"
cookie says, "you can't get way from from the one on one interaction to motivate people"
PrinceCharming teleports in.
Bullwinkle says, "I know why the Gov't is terrified of Hackers.."
Bullwinkle says, "Hold on..."
PrinceCharming asks, "why?"
jazz says, ""
Ben asks, "is neuromancer about advertising and corporate controlthough/?"
comet exclaims, "computers run society really, and to have the power to run society has
always been the jmob of the governmetnt, they just don't wan t to share!"
cookie says, "I speak to administator all day who are questiononing the use of tehchnoogy in
classrroom...nobody seem to know how to use it."
Ben says, "According to fitting, Neuromancerr is really about "the dissolution of the
defining boundaries of the human""
CJ says, "The government has been using it to check on us for yeears."
Hummingbird says, "government is worried about hackers, because they symbolize the
independence of the individual. The government is unnerved by people who don't follow the
rules."
cookie says, "computers run sociaety? I though that was big business. do yu mean the
economy"
cookie says, "right now the computer industry is driving our ecomonnomy or most ofi it"
Bullwinkle says, "Hackers are a new threat to the government. For years our enemies and spys
could manipulate only so far. Through hacking a skilled hacker can basically take what they
want and when they want. They also have a better source of knowledge than the gov't.
Polotics, can not tolerate the people with more power and knowledge than the gov't. hackers
are able to disperse information that would normally be in hidden files. More to follow"
Hummingbird says, "computers and the entertainment industry is running the oworld."
Pinhead (calmly) points out that the govrnment does not want us to be able to look back at
big brother
jazz says, "I always thought that it was big bussiness that comtroled the economic
environment"
CJ says, "Ben, but even though some of the boundaries were dissolved, he still had some --
the threating chemical sacs -- imposed by out siders"
cookie says, "we will always be fighting a balance between following the rules and working
for change...I think that's what keeps us going"
comet says, "I would say that it is society...big business just uses the computers to keep
things organized...it can depends on how you look at ait"
Bullwinkle says, "There are actually about a handful of grumpy old men that run the entire
business world.."
PrinceCharming says, "I think the government does more and knows more than we assume."
Pinhead (calmly) agrees with bullwinkle (for a change)
comet says, "from there computers probablh"
Bullwinkle says, "They know A LOT MORE THAN YOU CAN EVER imagine..."
comet says, "ooops their"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Yeap!"
CJ says, "Sure -- just look what they've done to gasoline prices these past few sweesk."
Joan-of-arc agrees with Bullwinkle
jazz says, "tell me about it"
Hummingbird says, "cj you are so right."
comet asks, "kinda pisses you off huh?"
cookie says, "they are definiately doing something abwith the gas prices"
PrinceCharming asks, "What are they doing?"
Joan-of-arc says, "we can't drive too much because we wont be able to afford it soon"
PrinceCharming says, "besides raising the prices"
Ben asks, "what the hell does gas prices have to do with it?"
CJ
PrinceCharming says, "we live in a commuter society"
Bullwinkle says, "That's because our gov't doesn't care about gas prices. They are doing
something, but we import so much gas, we have little control... The nations that produce gas
are wealthier than imagination"
Pinhead (forcfully) shares ben's confusion
comet exclaims, "If you were paying attention rather thatn chatting , you would know!"
Hummingbird says, "when we talk about big business or big brother it becomes too big for the
individual. In one of the articles, that is strategic. To make us feel as if we are not in
control... that it (hthe problems) is bigger than any of us."
Joan-of-arc says, "whoever brought gas proces answer the question please..."
Ben says, "speaking of a commuter society"
cookie says, "inflating them for whathe government is manipulating the gas prices just like
they manipulate other things in the economy"
Bullwinkle (Buzzed) pat Joan-of-arc.
********* Ben: slide 2 on benslide *********
The stories of computer hackers as high-tech cyber-criminals are,
at least according to the readings, somewhat exaggerated.
Ed Cummings, for example, is still in jail without bail for possession
of a "red box," which is nothing more than a radio crystal similar
to the ones found in a recordable Hallmark greeting card.

Why do you think the federal government and the secret service are so
paranoid about computer hacking?

What fears of technology and electronic culture are personified in the
figure of the computer hacker?
********* End *********
Joan-of-arc says, "enjoying your buzz Bullwinkle"
yung says, "Even if I do not drive, I noticed the gas price increaced since last week when I
was in the car"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "I was just telling you that ben!"
comet exclaims, "I think it is a total joke..but then again government has always been that
way!"
Hummingbird says, "i don't know who started the gas issues, but it is related. Gas prices are
regulated by OPeec or whomever. Computers and technology are regulated by the government and
others."
Ben asks, "Is hacking *really* a "threat" to the government, or is it just paranoia?"
Bullwinkle says, "Both."
cookie says, "like[D[D[D[say paranoisa"
cinderella exclaims, "That is exactly it, the technology, t[not the hacker!"
PrinceCharming says, "They fear it because technology is new and the possibilities are
endless."
comet says, "I think there is a valid threat"
Bullwinkle says, "It all depends on perspective."
CJ says, "I think ...never mind"
Joan-of-arc says, "It is a threat"
Ben asks, "what are the fear s of -- technology or bored smart teenagers?"
PrinceCharming says, "who's perspective>"
comet says, "ackerhackers can do things....bad things if tewanted to"
Pinhead (forcfully) points out that the govt. certainly has somthing to hide!
Tue Apr 23 16:31:06 1996 PDT
Joan-of-arc says, "to beat the system"
cinderella says, "They are afraid of the technology and the potential it is in the hands of
the skilled hacker."
Bullwinkle says, "What's the difference? Both can be dangerous."
CJ ibe
Ben says, "Ed Cummings is in jail for possessing the technology to make a Hallmark greeting
card. I don't feel threatened."
jazz says, "hacker are dangerous to the government because as Danny, oops, Bull winkle
pointed out, hackers are smarter than government officials and that pisses gov't off"
PrinceCharming says, "He's probably an example"
Hummingbird asks, "how long has ed been in jail?"
CJ don't you suppose the threat of hackers -- i.e. those who can control or invated what only
the gov't used to control/see -- makes the gov't nervous?
comet says, "just becasue they are bored smart teens, does not mean that the it is ok...."
Bullwinkle says, "That one is a mistake, they could not get more on him.. They just knew he
was up to no good.. That is not what I consider justice."
comet says, "it's a little more firrightening that teens can pull of f some of the crap they
do...theat's what scaress me"
Ben asks, "it doesnt say yhow long. The question is what are they doing that is
threatening?"
cinderella exclaims, "Yes!"
Hummingbird says, "has the demographics of hackers changed over the years? what happened to
the first generation of hackers? that is are their old women or olme old men hackers? "
Ben says, "and the answer is - nothing. It's what we fear they *could* do...."
CJ asks, "why is it not okay for bored, smart teens to do what the gov't already does...
invatede privacy?"
comet says, "They aremmjfhg"
PrinceCharming asks, "What would they do to us? Hack us?"
Bullwinkle says, "Actually Dr. There haev been some things done, some of it is priveledged.."
comet says, "I disagree with you Ben"
PrinceCharming asks, "Do you think we will see Computer Control Acts in the future?"
Ben says, "disagree with me? minus ten points for you."
jazz says, "definately"
Ben chuckles.
Bullwinkle says, "One P.D. depaerment (NOT LA) had an outside access to their LAN and altered
records..."
CJ says, "Control will probably come in the form of pricing"
comet says, "hmm"
Pinhead (inquiring) asks if this applys to everyone
Joan-of-arc says, "that's scary"
comet exclaims, "it was worth it!"
Bullwinkle says, "Ben, you're under arrest"
jazz asks, "what do you mean by pricing?"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Run Ben!"
CJ asks, "If it's too expensive to logon then who can duse it -- back to big business and the
rich, right?"
comet exclaims, "Thabnk you Bullwinkle!"
Bullwinkle (Opening up another beer) smile.
Joan-of-arc says, "they are afraid that these hackers will have too much access to government
deals, would that be true"
Ben says, "I never said that hackers couldn't be dangerous.... just that the people who are
attacked by the secret service are not dangerous. fact is the dangerous ones never get
caught."
CJ
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Ben, that's why they are dangerous!"
Bullwinkle says, "The good ones are much harder to catch.. Back to they are better than us"
Ben says, "Hey bullwinkle if you're going to arrest me at least you could offer me a beer
too."
CJ says, "Careful Bullwinkle. I know your boss *smle*"
comet says, "then.."
Bullwinkle says, "Oops, my deepest apologies"
comet exclaims, "Don't get greedy fearless learder!"
Pinhead (troubled) points out that the govt. rational is in the name of "National Security"
Bullwinkle says, "An overused term"
Ben asks, "yes, there are people whose knowledge is or could be dangerous. But wshould we
arrest everyone who knows how to build a bomb?"
Pinhead (troubled) agrees
PrinceCharming says, "I think they have national sec. covered"
Bullwinkle says, "Abused! that is"
Hummingbird says, "i think a m better name would be national 9 (in ) security."
comet says, "Nope...just the ones who do build the bombs..."
Bullwinkle says, "Nope, not at all. That what 1st amendment is for."
jazz says, "it gives go't an excuse to do WHATEVER they want to do"
Hummingbird says, "that is national insequri oopss again"
Hummingbird says, "national insecurity"
Bullwinkle (satisfied) laugh.
Ben says, "jazz - exactly....uit's an a es"
PrinceCharming says, "everyone can buy a gun, it's the ones that use them thatt gget in
trouble"
Joan-of-arc says, "I feel thereemote nods"
comet asks, "you are trying to tell me that if someone is a hacheker kicikin' it at home ,
doing notheing, they can get rushed?"
CJ says, "good point Hummingbird"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "It is all about whose **** is biggest!"
Pinhead says, "such horros the word allows "
CJ nod
Ben says, "I mean it's an excuse to harass people.... the fear of technology is personified
in the hacker."
Bullwinkle says, "I think Pinhead may be the next hacker we should worry about"
Bullwinkle (satisfied) smile at Pinhead (troubled).
cinderella asks, "say What is the difference between someone who buys a gun and the potential
ther and a hacker?"
comet says, "yup"
CJ asks, "Wait is it the fear of technology, Ben, or the fear of competition in the afrea of
tech?"
Hummingbird says, "one thing that really bothered me was the gov't arrest based on what
*could) be used fraudualantly. Guns could be used for murder, but they are a out and about."
Bullwinkle says, "Intent"
Bullwinkle says, "Constituion again..."
cinderella exclaims, "I agree hummingbird!"
cookie says, "say good question cj feels like more of the fear of com;petition"
Hummingbird says, "when you talk about the constitution, remember who wrote it."
Ben says, "What about Kevin Mitnick -- he actually did break into computers and take things
that weren't his, but he never ruined anything or made a profit. "
Joan-of-arc agrees too with Hummingbird
Bullwinkle says, "We are the present world super-power. Fear is what they feel is needed to
stay on top."
Hummingbird says, "thanks to all who agreed with me. (laugh)"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Then he deserves what he gets, stay out of people's things!"
comet says, "Let's not forget that we are not taling about DEATH we are talking about MONEY!!
That's why the for the most part at leastt"
Ben says, "Or operation sundevil -- where they busted Steve Jackson just for making games
about hackers."
CJ says, "Well you don't have to make a profit for something to be a crime"
Ben asks, "35 years for snooping in a computer?"
Bullwinkle says, "Correct CJ"
PrinceCharming says, ""
jazz asks, "I could understand the motives of the government if this was a dictatorship, but
isn't the US suppes to be a "free" country?"
comet exclaims, "the system has flaws, major ones!"
Bullwinkle (perplexed) take Joan-of-arc over my knee and spank her bottom.
Bullwinkle (perplexed) take Joan-of-arc over my knee and spank her bottom.
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Jazz, you'd be surprized!"
Pinhead says, "yh we really needed to take that guy off the streer"
Bullwinkle says, "Freedom is conditional"
Ben asks, "you don't have to make a profit but if he really stole "billions of dollars" worth
of information, where did the billions go? whose pockets did they come out of or go into?"
Hummingbird asks, "they talked about creating a specific category for computer crimes. the y
made a point of saying some crimes are treated more severly using a computer than without a
computer. where's the logic?"
Bullwinkle says, "Too much is as bad as to little"
Bullwinkle says, "We all need to slow down... Breathe in... "
jazz says, "there is no logic"
comet says, "Good question Ben..I guess that's why you are the teacher"
PrinceCharming says, ""
Ben smiles
CJ says, "Has anyone noticed what a lieveling function this Moo stuff plays -- enen"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "Get your nose outa there!"
Tue Apr 23 16:41:07 1996 PDT
cinderella says, "The fear is that legislation can't keep up with technology. That is where
much of the fear lies."
Pinhead (troubled) adresses the fact that we still need to provide some scare tactic to
prevent Hackers from going completely nuts!
comet says, "Bullwinkle...go away"
Drill teleports in.
PrinceCharming says, "legislation can't keep ujp with crime let alone technology."
Bullwinkle (perplexed) pinch comet.
Joan-of-arc says, "Bullwinkle go get yourself another beer"
comet spits
turtle has disconnected.
Lounge teleports in.
Ben grins. when they go completely nuts, that's when the gov't or secirity firms hire them.
CJ says, ""
CJ waves at Joan-of-arc.
Bullwinkle says, "Absolutely correct Ben"
Pinhead (troubled) agrees with ben's point
Bullwinkle says, "oops spelling error"
PrinceCharming asks, "Ben, just what technology does the gov't fear?"
comet asks, "don't yo think the # f of hackers are increasing rapidluy?"
PrinceCharming asks, "are they afraid of our modems?"
Bullwinkle says, "It is not as easy to hack as it used to be"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up turtle to get it back to the
right orbit.
jazz says, "there afraid of our knowledge"
Joan-of-arc says, "you would know"
Ben says, "not the govt -- the publisc..... *we* fear technology."
cinderella exclaims, ""Maybe the real story behind ed cummings is that he got a jjob offer
from the government as a hacker and turned uiit down and they are punishing him for it!"
Bullwinkle says, "I love tech.. welcome it with open arms"
PrinceCharming says, "the public will bark at anything new"
Bullwinkle (perplexed) kiss Bullwinkle (perplexed).
Lancelot says, "Isn't that how they caught Kevin mMthelp features"
jazz asks, "do you mean that gov't reall does represent the people?"
Pinhead says, "yes lancealot, with another hacker"
comet asks, "jazz really?"
Ben says, "no -- the govt or it's representatives exploit our fear of technology."
PrinceCharming asks, "how?"
comet says, "yup"
Bullwinkle says, "Ben you seem bitter, tell us about it"
Hummingbird says, "who is the government, but people and we, the people are still exploring
the unfamiliar wolrd of computers. Pcs haven't been her that long."
Ben frowns.
Joan-of-arc says, "we fear technology because it is moving way too fast for us .. We finally
get used to one thing then we are faced with another doubt"
comet says, "h"
Ben says, "I guess I need another beer."
Pinhead (arrogantly) hands ben a bud
CJ says, "that's a myth! That wWE are the goverment. "
comet asks, "BUD?"
PrinceCharming asks, "don't we use computer s to keep track of the fast paced technology
world?"
jazz says, "of course"
turtle teleports in.
Pinhead asks, "why ask why?"
Ben pours the bud into the toilet and opens a Samuel Adams
jazz asks, "back again?"
Joan-of-arc says, "drink Bud dry"
Hummingbird says, "hi turtle"
Lounge things
comet exclaims, "Oh..that kind of bud!"
Bullwinkle says, "OH YEAH, I have Corona and Lime"
Gofy grins at Ben.
CJ says, "ut Price Charming, computers are what CAUSES the hgigh pased world"
Hummingbird asks, "ben are you a loyalist?"
PrinceCharming says, "You "
Bullwinkle says, "Anarchist I think"
CJ exclaims, "that was paced, not "pissed" Must have een a Freudian slip!"
PrinceCharming says, "it was a joke"
Ben says, "I'm loyal to my friends. but not the f-ing fgovernment"
turtle says, "hi hummingbird"
PrinceCharming asks, "anarchy ben?"
Bullwinkle says, "I now know why you moved Ben"
Bullwinkle (????) laugh at Ben.
Ben asks, "do we live in anarchy? Who is really in colrntrol?"
Hummingbird says, "it was in reference to the orgi origins of this country: the loyalists or
the patroits."
comet exclaims, "WOMEN!"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "it's not the people that's for damn sure!"
********* Ben: slide 3 on benslide *********
Before taking this class and reading about computer hackers, what did you
know about "cyberspace outlaw" Kevin Mitnick?

What was Mitnick's "crime" which will land him in jail for at least 35 years?
Do you think the government and the press responded appropriately to the
situation triggered by Mitnick?
********* End *********
Bullwinkle asks, "Easy there, shouldn't it be womyn?"
Hummingbird says, "coment what do you men , mean WOMEN"
cinderella says, ""Yeah ."
Joan-of-arc says, "nothing"
PrinceCharming says, "I never heard of his name."
cookie says, "we are afraid of what we don't know[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[Dsay never heard of him"
Bullwinkle says, "Very little not all the facts"
comet exclaims, "I think Kevin Mitnicks story is tragic!"
cinderella exclaims, ""Hillary Clinton!"
Joan-of-arc says, "I hab never heard of him"
Bullwinkle (????) slap cinderella.
turtle says, "He got a longer sentence than many murderes"
PrinceCharming says, "I think the judge sucked in that case ( or was he/she influenced?)"
Lancelot says, "very little"
jazz says, "all aI ever though abou the topic was cool they play war games like the movie"
Lounge says, "I heard about Acid Phreak and Phtber Optick, but not him so much""
PrinceCharming says, "Kevin got a "hangin'" judge."
Ben says, "Kevin Mitnick was the hacker that the movie war games was based on."
Lounge thinks it must be the name
turtle says, "I guess peopl e really are afraid of what they don't know"
Bullwinkle says, "Good flick"
comet exclaims, "I thought that hackers were a very very very samll oops small group..now I
think they are everywhere!"
Hummingbird says, "i hadn't heard of mitnick. but it does sound like it was bloon out of
proportion."
PrinceCharming says, "Well ben, if he almost started a war then he should go to jail."
Joan-of-arc says, "I agree with turtle"
Ben says, "If you want to see where the hackers are, visit alt.2600"
Bullwinkle says, "Define hacker, we have not covered that.. I think we all have different
opinions."
Ben says, "I said it was based on him -- but he didn't do any of the stuff in the movie."
jazz says, "yeah but in the movie nothing happened to him. Evrybody lived happily ever
after"
PrinceCharming says, "Hacker is a general term"
Ben says, "more of an "inspiration" -- he messed with phone lines but he never started a
war."
PrinceCharming says, "We are all hackers in a sense"
Lancelot says, "who coined the term hacker"
Bullwinkle says, "I understand, it's subjective... We need a basis to go by"
Hummingbird says, "thats's the myth of our real lives ... happily ever after. "
comet says, "am I a hacker because I fingure things out? Or is it beyond that )(duh)"
jazz exclaims, "plus he got the girl!"
Ben says, "A "hacker" is a person who creatively solves problems with technology.....noth ing
more really. The original hackers invented computer networks."
Joan-of-arc says, "I dated a computerr\ hacker and at that a former hacker, he started when
he was only in 7th grade... they are really young."
PrinceCharming says, "I think they made an example of Kevin to quell the rest of us from
thinking of bigger things. He just got a bad deal."
Bullwinkle says, "Joan you need to date older men than that.. There are laws."
CJ exclaims, "my gosh -- don't tell Lancelot he's a myth!"
Ben says, "They made an example of Kevin b/c it got personal between him and another hacker
who is employed by a major security firm."
Hummingbird says, "bullwinkle yu are very good about adding humor"
Joan-of-arc says, "I didn't date him when he was in 7th... when he was 21 Danny."
comet exclaims, "I htink th[C[C[C that ...I forgot what I was saying..fdamn!"
Bullwinkle (happy as hell) frown.
Joan-of-arc says, "shut up"
Bullwinkle (happy as hell) laugh at comet.
Gofy smiles at comet.
Pinhead (arrogantly) produces a towel soaked with ether an places it over ben's head
Tue Apr 23 16:51:08 1996 PDT
Bullwinkle asks, "What about my intelect?"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Pinhead. Me next!"
Hummingbird says, "pinhead you are bold"
Bullwinkle says, "I have a match"
Ben inhales deeply and passes out.
jazz says, "what intellect"
Bullwinkle (happy as hell) laugh.
Bullwinkle (happy as hell) slap jazz.
Bullwinkle (happy as hell) slap.
Ben says, "maybe we should think about taking a break soon...."
Pinhead (arrogantly) asks ben if he wants to go to vegas
Joan-of-arc slaps Bullwinkle
CJ aya uixk
PrinceCharming says, "no slapping."
jazz exclaims, "duck!"
********* Ben: slide 4 on benslide *********
Much information about computer hacking, terrorism, and other illegal
activities is freely available on the internet. Someone who wanted to
could learn how to write a computer virus, build an atomic bomb,
rob a liquor store, or steal your credit card numbers simply by using
information available on the internet.

How do you feel about the availability of this information?
Do you think your security and privacy are threatened by computer hackers?
Do the hackers pose as much of a threat to your security and privacy as
the federal government?
********* End *********
comet exclaims, "HYESD..I need nicotine!"
PrinceCharming says, "Remember Jerky's lewd contuct"
Ben says, "OK -- break time....I'll show slide 4 again in a minute."
Joan-of-arc asks, "a smoke break?say where's our SURPRISER?"
comet exclaims, "IT WORKED!!"
Ben says, "See you all in a bit. I'm going to conitinuye this discussion in my office....."
Bullwinkle says, "How long Ben"
PrinceCharming says, "Let's give people the benefit of the doubt"
Joan-of-arc asks, "where's our SURPRISE jerky?"
Hummingbird says, "that type of information was available before. if we want to change
society we need to change the individual... that means us."
Bullwinkle says, "I must go get beer"
Ben says, "5 minutes or so -- as long as it takes to suck down a cancer stick and walk to my
office."
PrinceCharming says, "W"
comet asks, "what time is class getting over?"
Ben will be right back.
Bullwinkle says, "Me too...."
Ben says, "@quit"
Ben has disconnected.
yung has disconnected.
Hummingbird has disconnected.
Bullwinkle says, "I'll be back"
turtle says, "I am more worried about the government having this info then the hackers"
jazz says, "I have had many problems with information about myself , like credit card # being
used against me It drives me insane"
Pinhead (arrogantly) feels that most of the arguments that the govt. uses to make these laws
and rigid penalties is based on a slippery slope
PrinceCharming goes home.
cinderella says, "Ditto turtle."
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) sleep.
Lancelot says, "lokk llook prince cha[C"
Bullwinkle says, "Gofy, still there"
Joan-of-arc asks, "Jazz do you want to work out?"
turtle has disconnected.
jazz says, "sure"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Ben to get him back to the right
orbit.
Gofy nods to Bullwinkle (Sloppy).
Pinhead teleports out.
comet has disconnected.
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up yung to get it back to the right
orbit.
Joan-of-arc asks, "when?"
Bullwinkle says, "I will work you guys out.. I mean with you"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Hummingbird to get it back to the
right orbit.
CJ leaves for the hall.
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) leaves for the hall.
Joan-of-arc says, "My thighs are getting bigger and bigger"
Lounge wonders where the meat is hanging out
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up turtle to get it back to the
right orbit.
jazz says, "as long as its not anuything else...."
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up comet to get it back to the right
orbit.
Lounge says, "I mean, where are you guys really?""
cinderella exclaims, "What about me, I need to get back to the right orbit!"
Bullwinkle teleport in.
Joan-of-arc says, "say we are in the computer lab 666\"
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) leaves for the hall.
Lounge .oO ooh, scary...
Joan-of-arc asks, "Lounge, remember me...last Friday?"
Lounge . o Owas wondering what happened to his swizzle-stick
Lounge smiles
Joan-of-arc says, "we were talking to Max , Kiwi an[C[\"
Lounge nods
Joan-of-arc says, "I think I still have that swizzle stick"
Lounge says, "in Kiwi's flying saucer'"
Lounge says, "mixed any martinis lately?""
Gofy hasta go anyway...take care now and have fun for the rest too.
Gofy teleports out.
Joan-of-arc says, "no"
Lounge says, "it's also good got instant Nestea""
Joan-of-arc asks, "How do I get there?"
Lounge thinks "for", really...
Lounge says, "or Ovaltine""
Joan-of-arc asks, "to Scrabble?"
margarita. says, "say Tang."
jazz exclaims, "I gotta go pee....bye!"
Joan-of-arc says, "bye Jazz"
Lounge waves
margarita. exclaims, "Thanks for sharing jazz!"
Lounge says, "to scrabble type "join CJ" I guess""
Joan-of-arc teleports out.
Tue Apr 23 17:01:24 1996 PDT
Drill has disconnected.
yung teleports in.
Lounge says, "margarity! One of my ten favorite drinks...""
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Drill to get it back to the right
orbit.
Lounge says, "No. 10...planters punch""
Lounge says, "No. 9...mai tai""
jazz says, "that felt so good...""
Lounge says, "No. 8...rob roy"
jazz teleports out.
Ben has arrived.
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) has arrived.
comet has arrived.
Lounge says, "No. 7...scotch and ginger"
comet says, "hola"
Ben says, "hello"
cookie says, "waves"
comet asks, "so where were we?"
yung says, "hello"
Lounge says, "No. 6...kamakazie"
The log cleared by Ben.
cookie says, "laounge is getting smashed and we are wathcing"
Bullwinkle says, "It goes with the Corona's my friends brought"
comet says, "hmmmm...give your best shots Lounge"
PrinceCharming teleports in.
Lounge says, "No. 5...rum&coke"
Ben opens another Samuel Adams
Lounge says, "No. 4...white russian"
comet exclaims, "jack and coke!"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "You're all a bunch of lushes!"
comet asks, "and who is at home drinking during class?"
Bullwinkle says, "I love Rum and Coke"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "I'm with comet!"
Lounge says, "No. 3...MARGARITA"
comet asks, "HMMMMMMBullwinkle?"
Bullwinkle says, "I am not alone... Just some friends hanging out.. They are confused as to
how class is going on this way"
Lounge says, "No 2...gin&tonic"
margarita. asks, "No.3 [D, what happened to #1?"
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) lick comet.
Bullwinkle says, "I drank it"
comet exclaims, "It's a party and we weren't invited...I am totally upset!"
Lounge says, "and Lounge's FAVORITE DRINK (sorry, margarita...)"
Lounge exclaims, "MARTINI, STRAIGHT UP!!"
Lounge bows
cookie says, "applaud"
comet exclaims, "Lunge...ouch!"
Lounge falls on the floor senseless
PrinceCharming says, "I'll take a double Jack Daniels"
Bullwinkle says, "Ben, how much longer till class starts agian"
Lancelot says, "shken not stirred"
First_Guest has arrived.
margarita. exclaims, "YUCK!!!!!!!!!!"
Ben starts class again
Ben is now in his office
comet exclaims, "so slap up that sollide!"
Ben says, "Finally, a *real* computer"
Bullwinkle says, "Margarita you should @describe yourself"
Lancelot says, "are you alone"
margarita. asks, "Why?"
PrinceCharming asks, "Ben, why did you leave class? Was it us?"
Bullwinkle says, "I here ya buddy"
First_Guest says, "its good to hear everyone again for a minute I thought I was a lone in
this friky world"
Bullwinkle says, "He hates us"
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) cry.
Ben says, "not you, just me....I was longing for my Mac."
Bullwinkle exclaims, "NO NOT THE MAC!!!!!"
PrinceCharming says, "No Bullwinkle, I think someone farted here."
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) punch PrinceCharming (Suave).
Lounge says, "and you were smoking...smoking's bad for your health!""
comet exclaims, "STOP right now!"
Lounge passes out
Lancelot says, "it have been jerky"
Ben says, "Actually I could use some food too....."
First_Guest asks, "is jerky here again?"
Bullwinkle says, "Hey, all I have been doing is drinking, no gas, no smoke, no nothing..."
PrinceCharming exclaims, "I miss Jerky!"
comet exclaims, "I think we should finish class at happy hour at Acuploolco!"
Bullwinkle says, "Already there :)"
Ben says, "that's a great idea comet :)"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "F__k yeaH!!!!"
First_Guest says, "silversister where are you baby I miss you"
comet asks, "how about 15 minutes?"
Bullwinkle says, "But me to far to go there..."
Tue Apr 23 17:11:24 1996 PDT
Bullwinkle says, "I will miss all of you... Drink one for me"
comet asks, "I am silver..tits?"
margarita. asks, "Princecharming, are you Jerky in disguise?"
Bullwinkle asks, "Silver what?"
Ben says, "ok folks here we go"
PrinceCharming says, "How could you accuse me of that! I'm hurt."
********* Ben: slide 4 on benslide *********
Much information about computer hacking, terrorism, and other illegal
activities is freely available on the internet. Someone who wanted to
could learn how to write a computer virus, build an atomic bomb,
rob a liquor store, or steal your credit card numbers simply by using
information available on the internet.

How do you feel about the availability of this information?
Do you think your security and privacy are threatened by computer hackers?
Do the hackers pose as much of a threat to your security and privacy as
the federal government?
********* End *********
comet says, "ahhhh"
Ben says, "I agree with Bullwinkle"
Ariees_Guest has arrived.
Bullwinkle says, "Thank you"
PrinceCharming asks, "Hey ben, I said earlier, that info was written before it was automated.
What's the difference?"
Lancelot says, "Me too"
comet says, "I would say more of a threat to the feds"
Ben says, "(something I rarely do) :)"
Hummingbird says, "hackers can invate... invade my privacy, but the governmetnc can arrest
me."
Bullwinkle asks, "Do what?"
yung has disconnected.
Ben says, "I agree -- the info has always been around."
CJ winks at Bullwinkle -- agree with you.
Bullwinkle says, "Information is power."
Hummingbird says, "the government can make arrests."
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) smile.
Joan-of-arc says, "yes I feel a very big threat..because not too long ago I had someone
charge 1000[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[C[Cdollars out of my account in Delaware."
PrinceCharming says, "The Poor Mn's James Bond is an example."
Lancelot says, "Don't hackers do afetrsay don't hackers gio o"
Bullwinkle says, "So can civilians"
Lancelot says, "don't hacjers go after the rich and powerful"
Lounge says, "I will answer when I have something to hack besides maxed out credit card
numbers""
Joan-of-arc says, "It is scary...because they are very difficult to catch"
comet asks, "Do you think technology will drive us backwards?"
jazz says, "the info has always been ther is true , however it is much too easy to get to now
and I do not like that"
Bullwinkle says, "Not at all.. You watch many movies"
Lancelot asks, "?????"
First_Guest says, "there is nothing we can do about information being available to all
people. since we need the information we can not argue for its disclosure to anty one person"
margarita. exclaims, "But as far as this info being so readily available, it is scary, but to
regulate is to censor and that is un-american!!!!"
PrinceCharming says, "All of the possibilities have been there, the internet just made it a
little too convienient for people to access."
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up yung to get it back to the right
orbit.
comet asks, "The paranoid peoples...grabbing money out of the bank and put it under the
mattress type problem?"
Hummingbird says, "hackers go after money... not necessarily powerful. actually if you're
powervful, you have options to those wi/out money don't ahha have."
Pinhead (hungry) feels hungry for a swizzle stick
PrinceCharming says, ""
CJ says, "baloney. The government scensors all the time."
Ben says, "If you want convenient hacking try
http://wildsau.idv.uni-linz.ac.at/~klon/underground/underground.html"
PrinceCharming says, "You'r right CJ"
Bullwinkle says, "YES THERE IS! You can cancel all credit cards. Never sign documents. Move
to the forest and live off the land. Other than that you are fair game."
Pinhead (hungry) feels hungry for balony
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) eat Pinhead (hungry).
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) burp.
PrinceCharming asks, "Bullwinkle, isn't that what the Unabomber did?"
Lounge says, "Theodore Bullwinkle Kyzynski"
jazz says, "cute"
Pinhead says, "oh you sloppy boy"
turtle teleports in.
CJ asks, "Ben what address is that... where does it lead?"
Ben says, "actually hackers rarely go after money....except the high-paid government and
corporate sabotage type hackers. And they don't get caught."
Bullwinkle says, "You guys catch on well...."
Ben says, "CJ -- try it and see :)"
PrinceCharming says, ""
Bullwinkle says, "Money comes from knowledge and power.."
CJ says, "I loved the movie Sneakers -- that was about hacking."
margarita. exclaims, "say I agree with Bullwinkle, let's just abandon all this technology and
live off the land!"
Hummingbird asks, "are you saying if we don't havi money, don't worry about hackers?"
comet says, "I would say that knowlede oops"
First_Guest says, "well back to the subject. so we can't close off any information because
thamn it will also be closed to us. simple. either you want info or don't "
Bullwinkle says, "I know a great nudist colony."
PrinceCharming says, "I don't think people walk into CompUSA and ask for a computer that will
help them steal credit card numbers or create a bomb."
jazz exclaims, "knowledge and poew comes form money!"
Hummingbird says, "knowledge does not come from money"
Lounge says, "Yeah Hackers...first scene they make Nixon give money to the Black
panthers...coll"
Ben says, "An even better site: http://www.digicrime.com/"
First_Guest says, "bullwinkle i have a feeling you are a very close friend of jerky"
comet says, "I agree with jamzz1"
jazz says, "oops power comes from money"
Ben says, "There you can click a link to infect your computer with a virus."
PrinceCharming says, "Ben, we can't grasp the addresses you are giveing."
Bullwinkle asks, "Jerky who?"
CJ says, "Ben what's the address again? I missed it."
Joan-of-arc says, "Ben, will you make all these sites available for us to jot down.. I missed
some of it"
Bullwinkle says, "All wait for great ben to speak"
Hummingbird says, "ben ... never mind."
Ben says, "http://www.digicrime.com/"
Lounge says, "I guess the fact that you don't have money could be held against you...credit
ratings, etc.'"
comet asks, "WHAT would I want to do that for?"
Bullwinkle asks, "Do what"?"
Pinhead (curious) wonders what is in Ben's platinum box
First_Guest says, "say do what commet"
Bullwinkle says, "I also want to know Pinhead"
comet exclaims, "put a virus isn my computer!"
Ben asks, "sure, I'll put 'em on the homepage sometime..... Actually comet you wouldn't. It
really doesn't work; it's a joke....."Digicrime," get it?"
CJ exclaims, "Pinhead, it's all those hacking addresses!"
comet says, "HA HA"
Pinhead says, "yup"
Pinhead (curious) nods.
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) laugh at comet.
Ben says, "Nothing in the box; I just had to have one more valuable than Pinhead's gold one."
First_Guest says, "ofcourse you wouldn't want to do that. me kill you"
Bullwinkle (Sloppy) laugh at Ben.
comet exclaims, "Iam a computer illiterate person being takien advantage of!"
Hummingbird asks, "has anyone heard about the Trojan Horse virus. is that a joke?"
Tue Apr 23 17:21:24 1996 PDT
Bullwinkle says, "Nope,"
First_Guest says, "no"
Ben says, "A trojan horse and a virus are 2 different things."
comet exclaims, "FG...Me kill me!"
Bullwinkle says, "I like horses"
PrinceCharming says, "I'm bored."
PrinceCharming asks, "Can't we talk about the tyrannts again?"
Pinhead (envious) a
comet exclaims, "Prince....wahhhhhh!"
Ben says, "a trojan horse looks like a game or something but when you click it it wipes your
hard drive or does something else destructive."
jazz says, "what"
CJ says, "the troja h horse message has become the virus! It's drivimg me crazy. It's been
posted 6 times to one of my listws"
Ben says, "A virus is a program that replicates itself, like a biological virus."
First_Guest says, "ok ben another slide. shower me with contravorsy please. can't spell for
the life of me"
Pinhead (envious) p
PrinceCharming asks, "Comet , is there something wrong?"
comet asks, "are these things just scattered around the net for our distruction?"
Hummingbird says, "I'm not kidding, on a research group they said a new trojan horse virus
has emerged on the internet with the name PZ OOPS ... THAT IS, with the name PKZIP 200.Zip.
"
bens28 (webbed) webs in.
Bullwinkle says, "PKZIP300.ZIP"
Ben says, "Not really....there are a few of them out there but if you're careful and you use
virus detection software you should be able to avoid them. "
margarita. says, "The duck has landed."
Lounge shakes bens28's web
PrinceCharming says, ""
jazz asks, "so how did it get the name trojan horse?"
Ben says, "The key is don't download and use programs unless you know what they do."
bens28 (webbed) starts watching via the web.
comet asks, "First...can you bring me food?"
Ben says, "Think of the trojan horse story from greek mythology."
Bullwinkle says, "You can check for virus before you open them also"
Joan-of-arc asks, "how's that?"
Hummingbird says, "PKZIP300.Zip they say it would wipe out your hard disk."
PrinceCharming says, "How Bull."
comet asks, "how do yo ucheck?"
Bullwinkle says, "Do you want the whole Greek Myth"
First_Guest says, "i have all the food, drinks and smokes in the world"
Joan-of-arc says, "sure"
comet asks, "can you bring me some?"
Ben says, "Hummingbird -- that is a real trojan horse. Avoid it."
Bullwinkle says, "There are anti-virus programs avail. on the internet also for your system.
IBM has tons, not sure about MAC, sorry ben"
CJ asks, "joan you brought your swizzle stick with your from the lounge?"
Hummingbird says, "thanks "
>From the web bens28 says, "say higuys"
comet asks, "ooooooooooo sounds spooky...and where do you kfind this stuff?"
Bullwinkle says, "Bens28 change that name"
CJ says, "Hi Bens28. Glad you made it"
Ben smiles. yes there are plenty of mac programs too, not as many viruses though!
turtle has disconnected.
First_Guest says, "comet you know i always share my wealth with you my love"
jazz says, "you should stick some of that food in pinhead's fridge the one that I want back"
Joan-of-arc says, "I don't know how to get access of my swizzle stick that Lounge gave me"
Pinhead (envious) produces a jeweler from the back room who comes out , appraises ben's and
Pinhead's boxes, and announces to the world that Pinhead's is more valuable. then he walks
back to his jewelry store.
comet says, "emote sigshs with relief"
Hummingbird asks, "are we going to talk about the readings anymore?"
Bullwinkle says, "Pinhead, you have way to much free time these days."
Bullwinkle says, "I;m ready for readijngs"
comet stomach growls
Ben exclaims, "we *are* talking about the readings!"
PrinceCharming asks, "Are We?"
********* Ben: slide 5 on benslide *********
Andrew Ross makes much of the analogy between computer viruses and the AIDS
virus. Do you think this analogy is useful? Do you agree with Ross
that the current fascination with viruses and computer "outlaws" is part
of a largescale moral panic? What does Ross mean by moral panic?

Do you agree with Ross that the ultimate impact of the virus scare
has been an influx of capital to software corporations?
********* End *********
Joan-of-arc says, "wake up Bullwinkle"
Hummingbird says, "yah, right."
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up turtle to get it back to the
right orbit.
Bullwinkle says, "WOOOO go Ben, we are... Back to tojans"
Lounge says type "drop swizzle-stick"
jazz says, "oh i did't realize"
Pinhead says, "sorry ben"
Lounge says, "or"give swizzle-stick to CJ""
PrinceCharming says, "Ben, one is biological and one is technical."
Ben says, "OK -- back to the readings for the anal retentive amongst us :)"
cookie says, "it the virus scare certiainly was a tacit to get some sacash"
CJ says, "thanks joan-of-arc"
Bullwinkle says, "I was indecisive about that one. There are similarities, but one can mutate
a lot faster"
Joan-of-arc asks, "Did you get the Swizzle-stick, Cj?"
Lounge says, "genetic code is digital""
CJ says, "yes"
First_Guest says, "i can see how his analogy is somewhat relevant but I do think its a bit
extreamre "
Hummingbird says, "i wonderedif that was wat they really meant. that virus are created to
generate money. there's even rumors that the AIS AIDS virus was create specifically ,
knowing what it was."
Joan-of-arc asks, "will you give it back to me after you are done looking at it?"
Ben says, "It's not his analogy -- he took it from the media."
CJ time out fror a cookie
jazz says, "keep dreaming joan"
Bullwinkle says, "That's right, our gov'y may be credited for that one"
comet says, "busted"
margarita. teleports out.
Ben says, "he didn't say that's why it was created -- only that the net result was more money
for software firms."
comet says, "it's like the movie the net"
Joan-of-arc says, "where are you CJ"
Hummingbird asks, "is that what was meant m by negative mythology?"
cookie says, "idon't know about the aids virus being intentionally created but there are
certainly ways to help cure it which the government is not allowing to go to market because
certain corps orare to greedy"
comet says, "they created something so they could gain form it.."
Bullwinkle asks, "Ben, are you inferring that there is corruption in our business ventures?"
comet laughing
Ben says, "never! (smiles)"
Hummingbird says, "laughing"
PrinceCharming says, "Could"
comet chokes at response
PrinceCharming (Suave) sighs.
Lounge says, "is virises are like AIDS, what is the Internet's immune system?""
Ben wishes he could smoke in the office
Bullwinkle (wasted) smile.
First_Guest says, "lol"
jazz smiles.
bens28 (asleep) has stopped watching via web.
Ben says, "Let's not look at the finger when someone is pointing to the moon....."
Joan-of-arc says, "smoke, we wont know the difference"
comet says, "Ben needs to fight the power and chew some gum :)"
Bullwinkle asks, "How about niccorette?"
Hummingbird says, "what do you mean ben"
Joan-of-arc smiles
PrinceCharming asks, "Ben, Did you study uynder Bruce Lee?"
jazz says, "the moon or the bird"
Bullwinkle says, "You all need help"
Ben says, "Instead of taking the metaphor too literally, let's consider its implications"
Lounge liked Ben's analogy...
bens28 (webbed) starts watching via the web.
>From the web bens28 says, "hi Joan"
Joan-of-arc says, "so do you"
Bullwinkle says, "Play the slide again"
Bullwinkle says, "PLEASE"
First_Guest says, "pc don't forget who is grading you. rude. rude rude"
Hummingbird says, "bullwinkle is such a taskmaster"
Joan-of-arc says, "who are you bens28"
jazz asks, "what' the slide?"
Pinhead says, "please"
margarita. teleports in.
Bullwinkle says, "Ya, ya (whip, whip)"
Hummingbird says, "hi"
jazz says, "hello"
PrinceCharming goes home.
Lounge margarita is now Lounge's favorite drink
Tue Apr 23 17:31:24 1996 PDT
CJ says, "bullwinkle... you're a real cowboy"
>From the web bens28 says, "Its the cofussed blond"
comet exclaims, "Hey now...you are coming into my line of work cop!"
Hummingbird says, "whips have a whole new connotation."
First_Guest snoring
Bullwinkle says, "............"
Bullwinkle (wasted) eat comet.
********* Ben: slide 5 on benslide *********
Andrew Ross makes much of the analogy between computer viruses and the AIDS
virus. Do you think this analogy is useful? Do you agree with Ross
that the current fascination with viruses and computer "outlaws" is part
of a largescale moral panic? What does Ross mean by moral panic?

Do you agree with Ross that the ultimate impact of the virus scare
has been an influx of capital to software corporations?
********* End *********
Lancelot goes home.
margarita. teleports out.
comet asks, "speechless?"
Hummingbird says, "what does.. ooops"
Lounge giggles and passes out (again)
First_Guest says, "bullowinkle get away from comet. thats mine"
Bullwinkle says, "To an extent, but some were created just fro fun by ...... hackers"
comet says, "yseise"
comet says, "oops"
Bullwinkle says, "Get a grip Comet"
jazz says, "I think that the more sorft ware that is on the market the more people have the
chance to create viruses . it;s a never ending cycle"
comet says, "Back off Bulltwinkele"
cookie says, "the virus scharscare certainly had something to do with cash and people
getting off with freaking other s out"
Joan-of-arc agrees
CJ says, "well the software people have certainly benefitted. But, there's more to it. "
Surfer_Guest (webbed) webs in.
cookie says, "what more"
Hummingbird says, "hi"
bens32 teleports in.
Bullwinkle (wasted) agree.
jazz says, "scare advertising certainly does create revenue...."
Bullwinkle (wasted) disagree.
Joan-of-arc asks, "are you going to give my swizzle-stick back CJ?"
comet exclaims, "I think that there really is a mjor infection ...similar to uhhh lost my
place...DAMN!"
Bullwinkle (wasted) laugh.
bens32 goes home.
Bullwinkle asks, "Ben, perhaps time for next topic good sir?"
Lounge thinks 'my' swizzle-stick? hmmm...
Pinhead (nervous) agrees
jazz says, "bully, I need a drink"
********* Ben: slide 6 on benslide *********
Ross writes that the virus scare "has resulted in a windfall for software
producers, now that users' blithe disregard for makers' copyright privileges
has eroded in the face of the security panic."

How do you feel about the issue of software piracy? Do you think commercial
entities lose profits when you copy a commercial software product?

Most of what is written into the "Software Licensing Agreement" you technically
agree to when you open a commercial software product is illegal and unenforceable.
Nevertheless, do software companies have the right to control how you use the
software you buy from them?
********* End *********
Joan-of-arc says, "okay your swizzle-stick you gave to me...you never asked for it back,
Lounge."
PrinceCharming teleports in.
comet says, "I think piracy is great"
Lounge says, "You can keep it...I'm just pulling your chain"
comet exclaims, "screw the monwey maker!"
comet exclaims, "all my software is FREEEEEEE!"
>From the web bens28 says, "agrees"
Hummingbird says, "the issue of pri piracy is also an issue of copyrights. rember when the
movie industry came down hard on childcare centers for showing dumbo. an wanted to charge
them."
CJ says, "frankley, things like windows 95 create a winfall for software producers too."
Joan-of-arc asks, "CJ, where are you?"
jazz says, "I do't think that the software company looses that much money. the make plenty
selling the books and other accessories that go along with the software"
First_Guest says, "i agree with comet. i will use whatevet i buy sofetware or not in a way i
see best fits"
Ben asks, "Does the programmer deserve any money for creating the software?"
bens28 (asleep) has stopped watching via web.
Pinhead says, "they clearly set up guidelines with merchants in terma of the return policies
of their software."
comet exclaims, "I still agree to whatever thaey want...but I doubt the software police will
come for me!"
Ariees_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Ariees_Guest.
Bullwinkle says, "I feel that they only have control to copyright laws. Not on when or how
you use it. They are doing what we call CYA or cover your ass. Hey Comet, this room is logged
and now when you run for offcice, tthey will use it against you. Damn, it is getting hard to
type"
Bullwinkle says, "I feel that they only have control to copyright laws. Not on when or how
you use it. They are doing what we call CYA or cover your ass. Hey Comet, this room is logged
and now when you run for offcice, tthey will use it against you. Damn, it is getting hard to
type"
CJ says, "joan-of-arc, I'm here."
Bullwinkle (wasted) slurp.
First_Guest says, "sure the prodiucer needs to make money. thats why we pay for the software"
jazz smiles.
Lounge but now is wondering how to copyright a swizzle-stick
Joan-of-arc asks, "Cj , will you give it back?"
Bullwinkle says, "Use force kids..."
comet exclaims, "They can ........do a lot to me and I would like it!"
Ben says, "you can have mine Joan"
Hummingbird says, "the programmer needs to be paid. but where's freedome. why is
information such a commody."
Lounge says, "type 'give swizzle-stick to Joan_of_Arc', CJ""
Bullwinkle exclaims, "POWER!"
CJ says, ""
jazz asks, "why did comet's comment sound so sexual?"
comet says, "good wuestion"
comet scratches her head
Bullwinkle says, "enough about the stick.. You all need therapy..."
Pinhead asks, "is it the merchants or the software manufactuerers that set up the "no return"
return policies i on software.?"
CJ says, "Joan-of-arc, it can't find the swizzle stick. *frown*"
comet says, "cuz you have a nasty mind"
First_Guest says, "if there is a use of their software they would not appreciate it is their
responsebility to create it in a way where i wouldn't be able to"
comet says, "people need to be paid, but I still don't feel bad"
Ben drops swizzle-stick.
Joan-of-arc says, "type "give swizzle-stick to Joan-of-Arc"
Bullwinkle picks up swizzle-stick.
Bullwinkle (wasted) laugh.
Hummingbird asks, "ben, it seems tonight's discussion is dragging. does it weeoops seem that
way to anyone else. if so, why do you suppose it is this way?"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "NOW I HAVE IT!!"
Ben cackles
jazz smiles.
Lounge falls on the floor laughing
Joan-of-arc cries
bens28 (webbed) webs in.
CJ says, "I tried--it says it sees no swizzle stick"
jazz says, "ooooh"
Joan-of-arc is sad
Lounge says, "whoops! I was on the floor already!""
comet screams
First_Guest says, "emote snoring"
Bullwinkle says, "Look at Bullwinkle"
Ben says, "perhaps we should do something to revive it....."
bens28 (webbed) starts watching via the web.
Pinhead (nervous) feels that it is his fault that the conversation is lagging.
Joan-of-arc says, "put a - between swizzle and stick"
CJ asks, "Lounge, while you're on the floor, is Joan's swizzle stick down there?"
comet exclaims, "Bullwinkle...go away...last time man!"
First_Guest says, "ya ben revive, revive"
jazz exclaims, "give him bmore beer!"
Hummingbird asks, "what do you suggest?"
Bullwinkle says, "You do not need to type whole word.. no more beer"
Lounge says, "Bullwinkle has it""
First_Guest asks, "comet, isn'e bullwinkle a good friend of jerky or what?"
Bullwinkle (wasted) laugh.
comet exclaims, "ok..fun is over.BEN? say something man!"
Tue Apr 23 17:41:24 1996 PDT
Ben says, "OK.....here we go again....."
Pinhead (nervous) agrees with comet
********* Ben: slide 7 on benslide *********
One of the "hacker credos" is "Information wants to be free."

How do you feel about this credo? Do you agree or disagree with it?

What are the implications of this credo for what Burroughs (in last week's
readings) called the society of control? Are the issues here purely
economic or are there issues of civil rights and privacy at stake as well?
********* End *********
comet says, "Pinhead..relax already man"
PrinceCharming asks, "Are we still in class?"
jazz says, "depends on the information, private or public"
CJ asks, "say did I get logged out?"
Lounge thinks swizzle-sticks want to be free
Bullwinkle says, "We all like space and Privacy..."
Pinhead (relaxed) laughs.
Surfer_Guest (webbed) webs in.
PrinceCharming asks, "Why should information remain private? Is it to make money?"
Hummingbird says, "I agree with indorm oops information wants to be free. I think it is
important to give create oops credit to the pearson that generated the information, but let's
share."
comet says, "I don't think information waznts anything...I think we want everything free..in
more thatn one way"
Bullwinkle says, "There is cost for it all.."
Lounge smells info fetishism here
PrinceCharming asks, "How about free education?"
Bullwinkle says, "taxes"
comet says, "hmm"
Ben says, "I once heard someone say in email....if you really think information should be
free than post your social security number, all of your credit card numbers, and"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "that's a bunch of Bull, Bullwinkle!"
First_Guest says, "fetishizm ha"
Bullwinkle says, "We have one of the worst educational systems in the free world... How about
that"
Ben says, "your bank account information."
Joan-of-arc says, "PC good one"
jazz says, "my credit card number should remain private...no one else should use it"
Hummingbird says, "i also support public education that should be free. of course o we pay
for it through taxes, but we should open the door."
Bullwinkle (wasted) slap PrinceCharming (cool).
PrinceCharming says, "I can't argue with that Bull baby."
Bullwinkle (wasted) kiss PrinceCharming (cool).
comet asks, "good point...but is htat what you were talking about...all info?"
Bullwinkle says, "Probably not"
PrinceCharming says, "Thanks, I feel mushy inside."
Hummingbird says, "there's free and there's confidential."
comet says, "I agree with the bird"
Pinhead says, "society is not honest enough to handle that info"
Bullwinkle says, "Not confidential to hackers or those who pay price"
Hummingbird says, "your'e right bull"
First_Guest says, "society is as honest as we can make it"
Bullwinkle says, "Thank you"
Ben says, "the fact is that info is available to anyone who wants it and is willing to pay."
Joan-of-arc says, "tellers have our account information too"
comet exclaims, "nothing is FREE...let's just come to terms with that!"
cookie says, "right on comet"
Bullwinkle says, "That's what I said..... Oh yeah, what about.. hmm... love? sex? etc..."
PrinceCharming asks, "then does that mean we can buy information on building atomic bombs?"
jazz says, "more people than we think have confidential info"
Ben says, "What about Word 5.1a? that's free :)"
Bullwinkle says, "It is out there already there"
Hummingbird says, "information is available, but if it's for a price. then only those with
money will have access to that information."
Bullwinkle (wasted) laugh at Ben.
First_Guest says, "I agree with comet. what seems to be free you simply have to pay for
later"
CJ asks, "everything has a cost, bullwinkle. Get it?"
Joan-of-arc says, "I agree with First guest"
jazz exclaims, "what a capitalistic society!"
comet exclaims, "Bullwinkle...like i said NOTHING..not Love not sex (for some) but
Nothing...maybe not in paymentsm, but we all pay!"
Bullwinkle says, "I will not pay for those things PC violation ie prostituion.. Or do you
mean time is an asset and we pay with that"
Ben says, "you can buy info on building atomic bombs if you are rich and stupid. If you're
smarter you'll read about it in the Sept. 1979 issue of the Progressive for free"
PrinceCharming says, "Thanks Ben, I'll do that."
Bullwinkle says, "Ben, you know plenty about this.. hmm.... wana talk about it"
comet simles
Hummingbird says, "ben you now all the shortcuts."
Bullwinkle (wasted) poke.
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Hey he does!"
Joan-of-arc asks, "good idea...why didn't I think of it?"
Ben says, "They should have it at your local public library.... ;)"
jazz says, "ben it really scares me that you know so much about bomb making and anarchy"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "That's why he is the Dr. and we PAY!!!!!!!"
Joan-of-arc says, "I know"
PrinceCharming asks, "Ben how did you know about the date and everything?"
Ben says, "Now if a bomb goes off in LA......uh-oh...."
comet asks, "so why is everyone freaking out about what is on line when there are manual in
thr e damn library?"
Hummingbird says, "where I live, the public library doesn't have a budget for new books.
they relie on donations or grants or gifts."
Bullwinkle says, "You have the right to remain silent......."
Joan-of-arc says, "if we tell...will you fail us"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Die COMMIE BASTARD!!!!!!!"
Hummingbird asks, "bull are you a cop?"
comet says, "hee hee"
jazz says, "cute"
>From the web bens28 says, "this is scary"
comet says, "DUH"
Joan-of-arc says, "just figured that out>"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "Not I!"
PrinceCharming asks, "hey bens28, where do you live?"
Ben says, "Actually I know nothing about bomb-making .... but I do know where to find out
this info if I really wanted to.... the information is available to an
>> Network buffer overflow: 60 lines of output to you have been lost <<
Bullwinkle (mellow) nod.
Ben says, "forget the f-in' bombs already....."
Hummingbird says, "ready."
Bullwinkle says, "NEXT SLIDE"
CJ says, "On"
Pinhead says, "go"
comet exclaims, "food!"
********* Ben: slide 8 on benslide *********
Ultimately Andrew Ross makes the claim that computer hackers and corporate
saboteurs offer an important form of resistance to "technoculture."

Do you agree with this premise? What is meant by "technoculture"?
Do you think it is a positive development when dissatisfied office workers
sabotage corporate profits? Ross argues that this is a way of "claiming back
time dictated and appropriated by technological processes, and of establishing
some form of independent control over the work relation so determined by the new
technologies." What does this mean?
********* End *********
Lounge says, "at least give me back my swizzle-stick(yes, it's "
PrinceCharming asks, "Ben do you always rebel against the system?"
cookie says, "two wrongs don't make a right"
Hummingbird asks, "conceientious objectors have the right idea. resist but why damage
something?"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "SAY PLEASE!"
Ben says, "Not that I'm proud of it....but I was pissed off...."
CJ asks, "Did anyone see the Hallmark Movie Sunday about the Amash--that's Amish?"
jazz asks, "please what bull?"
CJ says, "Interesting because they totally reject modern technology."
Ben says, "No, I don't....like right now I like the system....I like my job :)"
PrinceCharming asks, "Ben your not gonna do anything to your students if you get pissed off
at CSUN are you?"
First_Guest says, "i have to leave and go to school now"
Hummingbird asks, "if your p o then it's okay. heck the problems probably are the same now
as then. who fixed them?"
cookie says, "epeole should address their problems with open dialoge.."
Bullwinkle says, "Anything you want :)"
First_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove First_Guest.
Pinhead asks, "so Ross is a luddite?"
PrinceCharming says, "Ben, tell us about hthose numbers"
comet exclaims, "SARA...FOOD!"
Lounge says, "Or give it to CJ or something. I don't care."
jazz smiles.
Bullwinkle (mellow) eat comet.
CJ exclaims, "Ben...you couldn't hold us allhostage... then I'd have an excuse not togo to
work!"
Ben gets an idea from Prince Charming.....
comet asks, "hmmmmm?"
PrinceCharming says, "let us in on it ben."
Bullwinkle says, "Ben is seeing little green things about now..."
>From the web bens28 says, "hey prince I'm downing a beer at home now"
jazz exclaims, "really bull, you shouldn't go around eating people!"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "damn!"
Ben says, "nothing to let you in on.....I just typed the wrong numbers b/c I was mad...."
comet exclaims, "I am downing a beer in the lab!"
PrinceCharming asks, "where did you work, NASA?"
Bullwinkle says, "I am about on number 5 or 6"
Hummingbird says, "you're human. at least you admit it."
CJ says, "don't be mad, Ben. Tell us ..."
Lounge figured
Bullwinkle exclaims, "That hubble problem is from you ben!"
comet asks, "whayy are you ammad?"
Ben laughing....
Joan-of-arc laughing too
Hummingbird asks, "anyone have confessions?"
comet exclaims, "wow..that;s not even English!"
Ben exclaims, "I'm not mad now....I was mad when I was working for a data entry job....I was
mad b/c the job sucked!!!"
PrinceCharming says, "did you work for admin & records, they always f__k up"
Pinhead (relaxed) rolls his eyes
Hummingbird says, "data entry sucks."
comet exclaims, "oooohhhhh!"
jazz laughs.
PrinceCharming (cool) sighs.
Lounge says, "carpal tunnel heaven""
Joan-of-arc says, "did you work for a laboratory that tests AIDS"
>From the web bens28 says, "i was the second man on the grassy nole"
Bullwinkle says, "Oui, Je suis tres joile maintenant. Parce que je bois plus buierre"
comet asks, "First Guest?"
Ben says, "It was a bank."
Bullwinkle exclaims, "WHAT!"
PrinceCharming says, "Ohhh, now we know why you are interested in all this hacker stuff."
CJ says, "bens28--your weren't old enough to be on the grassy knoll"
Hummingbird says, "you don't have to explain anymore. "
PrinceCharming says, "We're on to you."
Lounge says, "so you must know first hand out this s__t"
Joan-of-arc says, "so you're the one who took my $1000"
CJ says, "Bullwinkle, you're showing off."
Hummingbird asks, "bull did you say something nice?"
Ben grins....
Pinhead (relaxed) agrees
PrinceCharming exclaims, "I guess bribing you for an A now is out of the question, you're
probabley loaded!"
Ben wishes he was loaded....
CJ says, "wait a minute. WHAT was a bank"
jazz says, "I bet ben worked at Bof A"
comet exclaims, "remembrt where we are people!"
Joan-of-arc says, "I bet he did.."
CJ says, ""define loaded. with money or ....*smile*"
Pinhead (relaxed) offers ben the ether towel
jazz laughs.
Ben says, "gosh you guys all I did was type in the wrong numbers....it didn't have any
effect; someone else went back and changed them to the right numbers. I made a crummy
$6/hour. "
Hummingbird says, "comet it doesn't really matter if somebody reads this or not. it's
availbale to whomever wants to whereever."
PrinceCharming says, "to you they were wrong numbers, to someone it was their mortgage."
comet says, "$6 wow...."
Ben exclaims, "hell my boss knew then, it's not a big secret....anyway.....back to the
readings......!!!!!"
CJ wink at ben
Joan-of-arc asks, "heysay you probably made more then?"
Pinhead (relaxed) nods.
PrinceCharming says, "It's okay, you got your rage out against some unsuspectig fool."
Hummingbird asks, "instead of numbers, do you change grades now?"
comet says, "ok (frown)"
Lounge says, "once $500 got posted to my account out of the blue. i spent it of course. Then
they wanted it back...boy were they pissd"
First_Guest teleports in.
>From the web bens28 says, "i was the second man on the grassy nole"
Tue Apr 23 18:01:36 1996 PDT
comet asks, "FIRST?"
CJ says, "ooooh. That's a good reason to become a hacker. "
Ben exclaims, "Its a knoll!"
comet asks, "did someone call me?"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Hacking is in Ben's blood!"
jazz smiles.
********* Ben: slide 9 on benslide *********
Are there any extrapolations to be made between the discussion of computer
hacking and privacy and the debate over pornography on the internet?

Do you feel that the attack on "free speech" in cyberspace should also be seen
as an attack on privacy rights? Do we have the right to view any information
we want, no matter how "obscene" or potentially dangerous?

********* End *********
First_Guest asks, "Sorry, did I interrupt anything?"
Hummingbird says, "let's talk about trols do they exist in cyberspace."
CJ says, "who knows... mebbe he was on the NOLL"
comet asks, "SARA!!!!!!!!!!!!!?"
PrinceCharming says, "I think that it should be monitored somehow for the sake of our
minors."
jazz says, "the trols live with the cowboys"
CJ says, "No! as the current researcher on obscenity and porn. I say no."
cookie says, "here here prince charming"
PrinceCharming says, "I know that it's impossible but that's how I, Prince Charming feel."
Hummingbird says, "thanks "
PrinceCharming (cool) sighs.
Ben asks, "for the sake of our miners? Are there caves in cyberspace?"
Pinhead (relaxed) screams that we should have the right to view anything.
Lounge says, "Someone made the point once that if we monitor everything with a view to minors
everything in media is reduced to a sixth-grade level""
comet says, "I think we should have the right to view whatever we want..."
Joan-of-arc agrees with Prince Charming
Ben says, "good point lounge"
Ben says, "but nobody got my joke (pout)"
CJ says, "not if it's violent or icn incites violence"
PrinceCharming asks, "Do you want to see your kid watching beastiality on the internet? Or
child pornograpghy?"
jazz says, "it's alseady reduced to a 6th grade level of understanding"
comet asks, "I thinkwhat joke?"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "the inter net is a porno nightmare!"
CJ exclaims, "I got it ben. My sister married a miner who was a mon minor!"
Ben says, "miners and caves....."
Bullwinkle reconnects.
Hummingbird asks, "on the way to class yesterday, the topic was about holding parents legally
responsible for their minor child's criminal offenses. what do you think? should parents be
the wones responsible for monitoring their child's computer usage? and if so, parents could
be jailed for minor offenses?"
PrinceCharming says, "minors are easily influenced."
Lounge says, "Kids won't be interested until they already knoew what it is and by then it's
too late"
>From the web bens28 says, "ben Im having a tough time keeping up because Im on the web"
comet says, "oh"
comet laughs
Bullwinkle exclaims, "DAMN my whole system crashed, I had to reboot, Now I am back!"
PrinceCharming asks, "Parents don't want their kids to smoke but they manage to smoke don't
they?"
comet exclaims, "webman...sucks for you!"
Ben says, "porn is only on the net when you look for it. Like pictures of sailboats,
muskets, or anything wlse you want."
Lounge says, "and THAT they learn not on the web but 'on their own'"
comet exclaims, "where there is a will, there is a way!"
Ben asks, "bens28 -- who is this?"
CJ exclaims, "Well, if you want your mom going EVERYwhere with you until you're of age...
sure, hold parents totally responsible ofor their kids and computers. By the way, who gets
to stay home all day an d watch them...I fvote for dads!"
Bullwinkle says, "Looking at sailboat pictures turn me on"
PrinceCharming says, "Ben, it's onluy a matter of time until news travels in a junior high
campus."
PrinceCharming says, "if one kid finds it, they all do."
comet exclaims, "Bullwinkle..you amaze me!"
Bullwinkle (mellow) smile at comet.
comet exclaims, "I guess when the wind blows you go crazy!"
CJ asks, "Bullwinkle, I like looking at sailboats too. Want to visit me at the beach?"
>From the web bens28 says, "Its Kenny"
PrinceCharming says, "we might as well have pornos on saturday morning cartoons."
Ben says, "so....when I was in jr. high they had porn in magazines...it didn't stop kids from
looking at it."
Bullwinkle asks, "A nudist beach?"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "look how we turned out!!!"
Bullwinkle (mellow) poke.
Ben says, "I'd rather have porn in cartoons than violence."
Lounge sings "red sails in the sunset (lounge style0
First_Guest asks, "Has anyone seen Tiny Toons?"
jazz asks, "i don't think that parents should be responsible for their childrens' adventures
on the computer because most adults do'nt know as much about the computer as their children.
how can you have control over something you can't undersand?"
Pinhead says, "these censorships come from only one of many moral perspectives...It just
happens to be the dominant perspective now."
Bullwinkle says, "They have both these days."
CJ says, "I cguess it can be what ever you want it to be... if you wait till its dark
*smile*"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "the porn you discovered as a child was legal. the porn on the
internet is illegal!!!"
comet asks, "Ben...don't they still have p..oh porn.....you mean actually engaging in sex,
typw porn?"
Hummingbird says, "id rather have sexuality talked about as if it were p a natural part of
life and not just the negative or degrading studff."
PrinceCharming says, "I have friends that have some pretty foul pictures."
comet exclaims, "I have some pretty foul pictures!"
Bullwinkle says, "AIDS and HIV they use condoms even in the dirty ones (I was told that,
never seen one)"
Ben says, "I believe porn still exists but I would have to do some research to find out
(snicker)"
jazz asks, "wanna show us?"
CJ says, "Porn is not talking about or looking at "sexuality." Some of it advocates
violence."
Pinhead (relaxed) agrees wholeheartedly with hummingbirsd
comet exclaims, "I can help you!"
Hummingbird says, "it seems more creative to find sexuality that is mutually pleasing . to
hurt someone is animalistic."
cookie has disconnected.
PrinceCharming says, "Oh alright! I'll help with the research."
Bullwinkle says, "Yes it does, so does all of Arnold and Stalone movies"
Lounge says, "my sister says she wants her son's firsy sexual experience to be READ...I mean
REAL (haw)"
Hummingbird says, "yet, porn has it's place in our society. the problem is there's not
enough of a healthy portrayal of the human as a sexual being, capable of choice and
responsibility."
PrinceCharming exclaims, "have her checked out!"
Bullwinkle says, "Read, hmmm... I know there is a web-site for that"
CJ says, "the research has been interesting. I ended up on somplaces on the net I didn't
wkknow eixsexisted."
jazz says, "that's impossible nowadays"
Ben says, "personally if I was a parent I would want to stay out of my son's first sexual
experience....but to each his own...."
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up cookie to get it back to the
right orbit.
Lounge says, "She's freaked out by the fact that it might be some sensory-deprived thing...""
PrinceCharming says, "there are alot of sicko's out there"
comet says, "I agree "
Pinhead says, "SEX NEGATIVITY comes from this type of censorship"
Bullwinkle says, "I don't think they meant to film it or anything"
jazz agrees with Pinhead (relaxed).
comet exclaims, "sharp as a beachball Bullwinkle!"
Bullwinkle says, "Quick as a larva, Comet!""
jazz smiles.
comet asks, "Larva?"
Lounge says, "real sex is about touch...that's what's missing""
PrinceCharming exclaims, "I've seen pictures of a German Shepoard and a woman on the
internet. You can't say that is okay and not to be sensored. Think of the dog for criing
out loud!!"
Joan-of-arc laughs
jazz giggles.
Hummingbird asks, "in the news they were talking about flying instead of surfing on the net?
what do you think?"
Bullwinkle says, "Look, I log off for five minutes and it's HBO real sex 20 all over again"
Lounge wonders how PC found this
Pinhead (relaxed) thinks about the dog
comet says, "oh never mondi"
bens28 (asleep) has stopped watching via web.
CJ says, "real sex is usually about two people mutually participating. Most porn is directed
for male consumption ... not for female consumption. "
Lounge says, "Were you looking deliberately/"
PrinceCharming says, "Porn on the internet has gone too far. If it were legal, i wouldn't
complain."
Ben exclaims, "I've seen pictures -- motion pictures -- of people getting beaten to death or
having their brains blown out with guns..... on TV no less!!!"
Bullwinkle asks, "Pinhead beastiality?"
comet exclaims, "pinhead you are a sick "puppy"!"
Bullwinkle says, "spelled wrong"
Bullwinkle (mellow) lick.
Lounge says, "theory i heard...visual porn=male, written porn=female"
Pinhead (relaxed)
PrinceCharming says, "that's news ben, we see that stuff on CNN."
Bullwinkle asks, "?"
CJ says, "Ben, you're right. But still, they haven't made it out to be sexually peasing --
as snuff films do."
Tue Apr 23 18:11:46 1996 PDT
Hummingbird says, "it seems most people are opposed to the violence or negative side of
pornorgraphy. but that most people would like to see more eroticism (mutiual, etc.)"
PrinceCharming asks, "the world sucks! Or is that just gravity?"
Bullwinkle asks, "Have you ever d/l a real time movie on the internet?"
jazz says, "I don't know if its better that we are see ing so muckh violence... I would
rather see people making love"
Bullwinkle says, "Whips, dips, chains, etc...."
First_Guest says to PrinceCharming, "That it is leagal does not make it ok."
Ben says, "have you seen a lot of snuff films CJ? I've seen very little research that
actually documents them even existing. I'm sure they do exist and I think that's a tragedy,
but I think it has been exaggerated."
Hummingbird says, "gravity is a concept. not reality."
PrinceCharming exclaims, "I'd rather see Nudes on Ice at Vegas!"
comet asks, "whips?"
jazz laughs.
Bullwinkle (mellow) laugh at PrinceCharming (smoking).
PrinceCharming says, "I knew a COP who had one"
CJ says, "I think the biggest problem is that it's too difficult to distinguish between the
erotic stuff and the "user-unfriendly stuff.""
Joan-of-arc asks, "what happened to LOVE making anyways?"
Bullwinkle asks, "Had what?"
PrinceCharming says, "it was confiscated from a sick suspect"
Hummingbird asks, "what happened to love?"
Pinhead (relaxed) feels that there need to be many different perspectives on sex ...not just
one who decides what is right or wriong for our youth.
Joan-of-arc asks, "sure what happened to LOVE?"
Bullwinkle says, "It is still alive and well. The true romantics never die"
PrinceCharming says, "Pinhead, keep youth out of this."
CJ says, "I agree, ;inhood"
Joan-of-arc says, "or at least people who advocate it/\"
Ben agrees with Pinhead
Bullwinkle says, "It is still alive and well. The true romantics never die"
jazz asks, "is there such a thing anymore?"
comet says, "love making is not up for discussion..it is on a different level,..it's pure SEX
we are ltalking aoubout"
Bullwinkle says, "sorry again"
Hummingbird asks, "the computer lacks face2face contact. there's not any tougching going on.
how can there be love on the net?"
First_Guest says, "Love went internet and it lost the romance part of it."
Bullwinkle asks, "You touch the keys?"
CJ says, "Pure sex is not all bad either."
Lounge thins Bull is justv an ol'softy
Lounge hiccups
Bullwinkle says, "Only sometimes"
Bullwinkle (mellow) grin.
comet exclaims, "Bullwinkle...buy a blow up!"
Bullwinkle (mellow) laugh.
CJ exclaims, "I think that was a suggestive comment!"
jazz (singing) giggles.
Pinhead exclaims, "vanilla sex? YUCK!"
Bullwinkle says, "I need a smoke now"
Bullwinkle asks, "Ben?"
comet says, "hee hee"
Joan-of-arc asks, "Ben?"
Ben says, "you don't smoke Bull..."
Ben asks, "yes?"
comet asks, "BEN???"
CJ says, "Vanilla sex was what I was reading about on the web last night."
Bullwinkle says, "It's the internet, I can fly if I want to"
Ben asks, "yes? is there a question for me?"
jazz says, "sex and porn are vices and should not be treated as crimes"
Joan-of-arc asks, "what is vanilla sex?"
PrinceCharming says, "all this talk of cigs and I mignht start up again"
Pinhead says, "go on cj"
Lounge says, "let's all yell ben's name and make him nervous""
Bullwinkle asks, "What are we talking about?"
Ben hands bullwinkle a cigarette. Menthol.
Lounge gags
comet says, "eeewwww"
Bullwinkle says, "Thanks...."
Bullwinkle (cough) poke.
comet asks, "Menthol?"
Lounge says, "you might as well have given him a clove"
Hummingbird has disconnected.
PrinceCharming asks, "ben do you have any more slides?"
Ben says, "I'm not going to waste a real cigarette on a nonsmoker :)"
jazz says, "vanilla sex is your normal everyday amn on top wham bam thank you mam"
CJ says, "Well, pinhead. The whole point of the webpage I found was that "vanilla" was not
the only thing we should think about -- that the church ahs pay played a role in making us
think it is, but it's stifling."
comet exclaims, "good answer Ben!"
Ben says, "yes, there is one more...."
comet exclaims, "bring it on!"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "I do like a food clove with a beer, haven't had one in years!"
Joan-of-arc says, "Thank-you Jazz"
Bullwinkle (Horns?) thank Joan-of-arc.
Ben says, "ok....here it comes....."
Bullwinkle (Horns?) thank Ben.
********* Ben: slide 10 on benslide *********
Finally, how does the discussion of cyberpunk and computer hackers change
your perspective on the Gibson book that we read earlier in the semester?
Do you feel that Gibson's cyberspace world is truly the direction we are
headed in? Do you agree with Fitting that "the trope of technological
change as a wave me must learn to ride in order to survive robs us of our
will to act for change and serves to 'naturalize' corporate and government
decisions and choices about our future"?

Thank you very much for joining us this evening.
The log of this discussion will be available on the web: stay tuned!
********* End *********
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Hummingbird to get it back to the
right orbit.
Pinhead (relaxed) is intersted in cj's findings
comet says, "no"
CJ has disconnected.
Ben asks, "comet is that your answer to the question?"
PrinceCharming says, "No, people seem to be quite extreme when a change occurs in the world.
I think we will adapt to cybertech just the same way we adapted to other technologies."
comet says, "part of it (smile)"
Lounge bows to Bull and winks
Ben grins. Gotta love brevity.
PrinceCharming exclaims, "get a room!"
Bullwinkle says, "I am in one"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up CJ to get it back to the right
orbit.
Ben ROFLMAOs
Bullwinkle says, "I need slide again..."
comet says, "me toooooooo"
Joan-of-arc says, "me three"
PrinceCharming says, "bring it on."
********* Ben: slide 10 on benslide *********
Finally, how does the discussion of cyberpunk and computer hackers change
your perspective on the Gibson book that we read earlier in the semester?
Do you feel that Gibson's cyberspace world is truly the direction we are
headed in? Do you agree with Fitting that "the trope of technological
change as a wave me must learn to ride in order to survive robs us of our
will to act for change and serves to 'naturalize' corporate and government
decisions and choices about our future"?

Thank you very much for joining us this evening.
The log of this discussion will be available on the web: stay tuned!
********* End *********
PrinceCharming exclaims, "again please!"
CJ teleports in.
Lounge asks, "Is it possible (or will it be possible someday) to completely monitor the net?"
Lounge shivers
********* Ben: slide 10 on benslide *********
Finally, how does the discussion of cyberpunk and computer hackers change
your perspective on the Gibson book that we read earlier in the semester?
Do you feel that Gibson's cyberspace world is truly the direction we are
headed in? Do you agree with Fitting that "the trope of technological
change as a wave me must learn to ride in order to survive robs us of our
will to act for change and serves to 'naturalize' corporate and government
decisions and choices about our future"?

Thank you very much for joining us this evening.
The log of this discussion will be available on the web: stay tuned!
********* End *********
jazz says, "ireally hope not"
First_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove First_Guest.
PrinceCharming says, "I'm sure they will be able to do it soon for security reasons."
Bullwinkle says, "They are two parallel but unequal worlds. They have potential to exist, but
not as they seem. I think aspects from both will make up our future."
jazz exclaims, "they find a reason!"
Pinhead (relaxed) agrees with Bullwinkle
CJ says, "I think there are always a few who reisit the change."
PrinceCharming exclaims, "someday, some company will find a way to monitor the net and they
will make millions!"
comet exclaims, "this is a deep one!"
Pinhead exclaims, "you're back cj!"
PrinceCharming asks, "so why don't we do it?"
CJ exclaims, "yup -- the system logged me out, but I defeated it!"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "Humans do not like change, they never have, That is why my race will
survive!"
Pinhead (relaxed) high fives cj
Joan-of-arc asks, "what the pig race?"
Ben asks, "you mean mooses?"
PrinceCharming says, "I think we have come a long way so far."
CJ says, "but the change happens, and the most frightening change is the change we do not
notice"
Lounge says, "great...fear of a planet filled with moose"
comet exclaims, "I knew you weren't human!"
Bullwinkle says, "No silly, you know what planet I came from.. (lets keep it a secret
though)"
CJ hi fives Pinhead
jazz exclaims, "northern exposure everywhere!"
PrinceCharming (smoking) sighs.
PrinceCharming (smoking) sleeps.
Pinhead (relaxed) begins breakdancing
Tue Apr 23 18:21:50 1996 PDT
jazz says, "do"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "head spin!"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "Moonwalk man!"
Ben says, "back to the text....."
PrinceCharming says, ""
Bullwinkle asks, "What happened to out topic?"
********* Ben: slide 10 on benslide *********
Finally, how does the discussion of cyberpunk and computer hackers change
your perspective on the Gibson book that we read earlier in the semester?
Do you feel that Gibson's cyberspace world is truly the direction we are
headed in? Do you agree with Fitting that "the trope of technological
change as a wave me must learn to ride in order to survive robs us of our
will to act for change and serves to 'naturalize' corporate and government
decisions and choices about our future"?

Thank you very much for joining us this evening.
The log of this discussion will be available on the web: stay tuned!
********* End *********
PrinceCharming exclaims, "what a Nazi man!"
Bullwinkle says, "I just answered you.. Ben is getting frustrated, can't we all play well
(you thought I was going to say something else)"
jazz says, "I think we're all tired now..."
PrinceCharming says, "we just drifted for a second"
comet says, "uhh...why don;t you give us your opinion Ben."
CJ says, "I don't think it will be as negative as Gibson projects, but yes... I think we are
headed that way. Reminds me of Huxley it seems to happen."
Ben isn't getting frustrrated....ben has a phone call :(\
PrinceCharming asks, "yeah ben, what do you think?"
Bullwinkle says, "I didn't answer mine"
comet says, "them n "
Bullwinkle says, "Well, maybe once"
Ben says, "I think there is some truth to the statement."
Lounge says, "it's like the ice gibson talks about...it's everywhere"
CJ says, "mine won't rign -- the computer's hooked up to it. Drives people crazy"
PrinceCharming says, "Ha Ha ben"
comet says, "goodbye..."
Lounge rings
PrinceCharming says, "bye"
comet blows kisses
Pinhead (relaxed) waves at comet.
Bullwinkle asks, "Where is everyone going?"
PrinceCharming asks, "Ben what is your position on this?"
jazz (singing) waves.
Lounge says, "Long who?...oh, long distance"
Ben says, "so wheredid we decide on dinner ? ;)"
comet has disconnected.
Bullwinkle says, "MOOOOO"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Chillies!"
Bullwinkle asks, "Who's buying?"
CJ says, "no, not it the barn. Dinner in a restaurant"
Lounge thinks moose for dinner
PrinceCharming says, ""
jazz says, "yeah"
Pinhead (relaxed) wonders if he can start breakdancing again
PrinceCharming says, "Chilli's is cheaper than acapulco"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "Come and get me!"
Lounge has disconnected.
Bullwinkle (Horns?) slap.
jazz says, "bull's buying..."
Bullwinkle (Horns?) punch.
Bullwinkle (Horns?) kick.
CJ says, "pinhead... that's what I'd like to see."
Bullwinkle (Horns?) vomit.
PrinceCharming asks, "ben, did we loose you?"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up comet to get it back to the right
orbit.
Bullwinkle says, "Get the point"
Joan-of-arc asks, "where are we going for dinner?"
Ben is still here
Bullwinkle (Horns?) lick Joan-of-arc.
Bullwinkle (Horns?) flirt with Joan-of-arc.
Bullwinkle (Horns?) kiss Joan-of-arc.
CJ exclaims, "I can't make it for dinner... my kid just took my car!"
Ben says, "Chillis"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Lounge to get him back to the
right orbit.
PrinceCharming exclaims, "Let's do it!"
jazz says, "after this conversation i really need a beer"
Joan-of-arc says, "okay..we'll be there"
Ben exclaims, "me too!"
Bullwinkle asks, "Well, I am in the city, anyone coming my way?"
PrinceCharming asks, "Where are you?"
Joan-of-arc says, "christi says she wants to go to Acapulco because of the margaritas"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "I am buzzed no beer!"
Ben says, "that's fine pinhead"
Bullwinkle says, "Tomorrow is 1$ MARGIR night at alca"
Ben asks, "Acapulco is fine with me?"
Pinhead (relaxed) sighs with reliefe
jazz exclaims, "acapulco's also has happy hour...food!"
PrinceCharming (smoking) coughs.
Bullwinkle exclaims, "You can smoke there!"
Joan-of-arc says, "look Ben Christi is standing and asking me what time you want to meet her
tomorrow"
PrinceCharming says, "you can smoke at the bar"
Ben asks, "tomorrow?"
Bullwinkle says, "I have been at this computer so long.. wow, I need to get fresh air"
jazz says, "I though it was tonight"
Joan-of-arc says, "she wants to go for $1 tomorrow"
Bullwinkle asks, "What about tomorrow?"
Bullwinkle asks, "You mean $1 drinks?"
Ben says, "Chris' defense is tomorrow night"
Joan-of-arc says, "it is tonight but Christi has a speech"
Jerky exclaims, "Ha I'm back!!!"
Bullwinkle (Horns?) eat Jerky (smoking).
Jerky exclaims, "I'm never gonna leave, never!"
jazz exclaims, "jerky!"
Pinhead asks, "ben, can I come whach the defense tomorrow?"
Ben says, "ask Chris"
Joan-of-arc says, "Yes Christi's defense tomorrow and after that she wants to go to Acapulco"
Bullwinkle asks, "? defense?"
CJ says, "Ben, is Chris Skiles defending tomorrow night? "
Bullwinkle says, "green is mean"
Bullwinkle says, "green is mean"
Bullwinkle says, "green is mean"
Bullwinkle says, "green is mean"
Bullwinkle says, "green is mean"
Bullwinkle says, "green is mean"
Pinhead asks, "are you going to lambast him?"
Ben says, "I'm sure it's fine. yes toomorrow after the defense is fine"
Bullwinkle says, "sorry, computer glitch"
Joan-of-arc says, "yes CS is defending"
Ben asks, "So where are we going tonight?"
Bullwinkle asks, "defending what?"
CJ asks, "what time?"
Joan-of-arc says, "that's cool"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "I'm out of here!"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "see you all later!"
Bullwinkle asks, "Is class over?"
Joan-of-arc says, "Christi said good-bye Ben"
jazz says, "I want chillie's tonoght"
Joan-of-arc says, "let's go to Chilis"
Ben exclaims, "Bye christi!!"
Pinhead (relaxed) agrees with Jazz
Joan-of-arc says, "she's gone"
CJ exclaims, "I want Chilli's on Thursday night!"
Bullwinkle (Horns?) cry.
PrinceCharming says, "see you all at
Chilli's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11"
Joan-of-arc says, "Ben we are all going to meet ypou at Chilis"
jazz says, "let's go now"
Bullwinkle exclaims, "You are acting like a bunch of kids who need a spanking!"
Ben says, "OK -- I'll be there in a little bit"
Pinhead exclaims, "don't cry bullwinkle it's a waist of good suffering!"
Bullwinkle (Horns?) take Joan-of-arc over my knee and spank her bottom.
Joan-of-arc says, "see you"
Bullwinkle (Horns?) take jazz (singing) over my knee and spank her bottom.
jazz exclaims, "bull!"
Bullwinkle says, "Goodbye all"
Bullwinkle (Horns?) laugh.
CJ says, "sexual harassment, bullwinkle"
PrinceCharming exclaims, "I'm going NOW!!"
PrinceCharming has disconnected.
Joan-of-arc has disconnected.
Bullwinkle says, "NOPE, they asked for it"
Ben says, "I'm starving....see you all there"
CJ says, "bye everyone"
jazz says, "bye everyone"
Bullwinkle says, "See ya in school Thursday"
Bullwinkle says, "Bye all......"
Pinhead (relaxed) anounces that he his logging off
CJ says, "bye pinhead."
jazz has disconnected.
Tue Apr 23 18:31:51 1996 PDT
Pinhead has disconnected.
Ben says, "bye-bye"
Bullwinkle says, "bye doc"
CJ says, "bye ben. Wish I could make it for diner *sob*"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up PrinceCharming to get him back to
the right orbit.
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Joan-of-arc to get her back to
the right orbit.
Bullwinkle says, "I am outa here...."

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